Copperfield Equine Therapy & Rehabilation Centre

Vitamin C for Equine Health

catherine — Fri, 14 Sep 2012 10:38:47 +0000

Vitamin C is essential for healthy cells, strength of blood vessels and for collagen synthesis- especially in the pads between the vertebrae and joints.

Vitamin C is a tremendous help in the treatment of any sickness, colic, viral and bacterial infections, allergies.

The list is endless, I have found it to very useful in a lot of different categories, and believe it is an essential daily supplement required for the athlete in hard training.

Vitamin C can be used with complete safety in situations where antibiotics may be used.

Tha ability of Vitamin C to protect the lungs and upper-respiratory linings from allergic reactions is well documented, it can prevent wheezing and reduce the risk of permanent lung damage when used long term.

A paper presented at the 1997 American Association of Equine Practicioners meeting reported similar improvement of symptoms in six horses with COPD/”heaves” when supplemented with calcium ascorbate (Ester C) in amount of 20-30 grams a day.

Equine Nutrition & Natural Health Care

copperfieldadmin — Tue, 15 May 2012 22:28:10 +0000

Defining Nutrition & Natural Health Care

Natural means different things to different people from turning horses out on grass and letting nature take it’s course, to incorporating a host of natural substances into the horses diet.

The most important factors are as follows:

*Feeding the horse calories of a type and amount suitable to maintain normal body weight for the breed and level of work.

*Guaranteeing correct balanced intake of key vital minerals and vitamins, with supplementation geared to the individual horse’s needs and what is already in the diet.

*Using supplementation nutrients and nutraceuticals to support normal growth and assist the horse in dealing with stresses, injuries, or illness.

Exploring the use of nutraceuticals and herbals as alternative to drugs.

*The goal is not to deprive the horse of the benefits of modern medicine and science, but to use the knowledge science has provided us to make our horses healthy, sound, and strong as possible. We won’t be able to prevent every illness or injury, but when one occurs we want to be sure to give the appropriate nutritional support and not rely completely on drugs alone.

For Consultation and Complete Feeding Analysis, please contact me.

The Negative Effects of Shoeing Horses.

copperfieldadmin — Sun, 13 May 2012 12:09:40 +0000

The Negative Effects of Shoeing : Catherine Cooper Lic Ac Tcvm

Today, there is a lot of evidence to prove the negative effects of shoeing horses.

Does your horse go suddenly lame (fracture lame) after doing a piece of work.

Is he suffering with splints.

Has your horse developed Suspensory Desmitis/Ligament Branch Injuries.

Sore Shins

Back Problems

The list is endless !!

Diagnosing Feet Problems

After many years of extensive examination of horses, the diagnostics through Acupuncture have been conclusive that horses are experiencing considerable pain in their feet. There are no significant obvious signs or symptoms, the horses feet appear normal. Although this is not the case to the professionally trained individual. The heels are contracting, toe is too long, the frog is necrotic etc. I have treated these problem by increasing circulation and relieving pain through natural NSAI and herbal medicine. It was evident to me that most of these horses regardless of their discipline, were suffering from a low grade or worse laminitis, or navicular syndrome.

This in turn creates compensatory lameness , including suspensory desmitis, splints, back pain and sacroiliac problems, jarring, etc.. These symptoms also became more evident as a result of ongoing feet problems, and although the horses at the early onset were showing no obvious lameness, but all were diagnostically conclusive that intermediate damage was apparent.

In a given time, due to ongoing compensation from foot pain, all of these horses were eventually diagnosed with acute or chronic injuries by our Veterinarians. As I have spent my whole career dedicated to treating or preventing all of the above conditions and having some results. It has to be stated that if one does not treat the underlying cause, if symptomatic or not, then it is evident to me that the treatments are short lived and it really is a waste of time in trying to achieve permanent results. I do believe 95% of all lameness begin in the feet. “No hoof no horse” is indeed very true.

Concussion.

At one time, it may have been hard to prove the negative effects of shoeing, but today, there is no longer any doubt. Advancements in science now allows us to see things the human eye is incapable of viewing. We can also measure forces using instruments that leave little doubt as to the facts of the matter. The high speed videos of a trotting horse landing barefoot, and landing shod are real eye openers. Seeing it just once you will not be able to look at shoeing the same again. Imagine the effects of years of such concussive forces.

How do we know that shoes reduce circulation in the horse’s feet and legs? There’s a very simple way to tell. Feel the legs of a shod horse. They will be cold – in many cases icy cold. And we are taught that this is a good thing! Now take the shoes off that very horse and feel his legs a while later. They will be warm. As they should be! Aside from common sense however, thermography has clearly shown that shod feet result in cooler legs. Coolness caused by lack of circulation.

Not only do shoes reduce circulation they also prevent the hoof from expanding during motion. The functions of the foot in regards to energy dissipation, the Laminar attachments between the hoof wall and P3 (the distal phalanx or coffin bone) and the digital cushion – along with the respective ligamentous connective tissues have all been mentioned as having potentially significant roles in the anti-concussive mechanisms of the foot. Basically it is to allow the foot to expand and withstand the concussive forces of weight bearing and movement.

Dr Robert Boker DVM PhD. states through documented research that high transient energy forces within the horses foot are dissipated via the rapid movement and flow of blood through an extensive and tortuous vascular network of small caliber veno-venous anastamoses present within the cartilages and other strategtic regions within tissue of the equine foot. This hemodynamic flow hypothesis relies upon the biomechanical principles of hydraulic fluid theory as it relates to the impedence (resistance) of such fluid movement that develops when it is forced to flow through small vessels. Furthermore the efficiency of this mechanism is dependant upon the individual confirmation of the cartilages and structural composition of the horse’s digital cushion.

Any dysfunction in this hemodynamic flow mechanism may partially explain the insidous lameness conditions that develop during normal locomotion of the equine athlete. Such a disturbance will result in greater transient energies being subsequently transmitted to bone and other sensitive tissues within the digit rather being dissipated by this hemodynamic mechanism.

As the unshod hoof lands the weight of the horse descends on the bony column and into the hoof. The back of the hoof expands as this occurs accommodating the descent of the coffin bone onto the digital cushion. The digital cushion grows thick and tough, as does the frog, thus allowing a healthy hemodtnamic flow mechanism.

Shoes, however, are rigid and prevent the hoof from expanding and causing dysfunction to the hemodynamic flow mechanism. A horse that is shod, non weight bearing and with foot in contracted position, then shoe is aligned and nailed on to foot. Once the foot is returned to standing position the foot cannot then expand to withstand the concussive forces which it was designed to do.

Since the coffin bone cannot descend normally the digital cushion doesn’t get the pressure/release necessary for health and it shrinks, as will the frog in many cases. In addition the joints articulate differently. Over time horses will begin to land toe first, go over at the knee, shorten in stride, which in turn puts extensive pressure on the ligaments and tendons. Stress and pain will be evident on palpation initially at the medial aspect of the Suspensory and medial splint bone apparatus, heels will contract, circulation will diminish, necrosis will develop, and after enough time the horse will develop any of the above mentioned compensatory injuries and in time will lead to symptoms of navicular and or laminitis.

Trimming and Balance

In order to have a robust hemo-dynamic mechanism present in the foot created either by breed predisposition or by enviromental stimulation, the hoof must be prepared properly by the farrier or veterinarian . He must align the hoof wall pillars with the cartilages to maximize such a dissipating system. If this is not done properly, as in the case of underrun heals, eventual lameness problems will probably ensue.

Once proper neurological and biochemical function is achieved in the distorted or diseased hoof, many lame horses return to soundness, both physically and mentally. The traditional horseshoe cannot work to aid in this rehabilitation.

It is also important that younger and older horses should be trimmed regularly, every four weeks. The proper trimming necessary in younger and developing horses in order to have a good balance for the growing bones, ligament and tendonous structures.

If flares are present they have detrimental effects on the internal structures of the foot, stretching the white line and giving rise to poor coffin bone suspension. This can be very painful, and it’s like lifting really hard on your fingernail. Bars also need to be trimmed regularly and left level with the sole and outer hoof wall, for balance. The frog needs to be healthy and spread across the foot and towards the bulbs, this in turn supplies good and adequate blood supply to the foot…

Treatment

I do believe by educating people and making them more aware of the above conditions. We can indeed address these problems, by natural and effective foot trimming and balancing, nutrional supplementation for healthy hoof growth.

Naturally it may also be evident that some horses can indeed have conformation deformities, nutrition imbalances that may not allow them to perform without shoes, although there are several alternative methods of shoeing available today that can help these horses during the transition period to barefoot.

Yes, indeed one would ask . How could I run my horse on slippery ground conditions without an accident occuring. This is a question that can also be answered. Horses with healthy, pain free feet, have more natural balance , better breakover and surefootedness, normal head carriage. I would also like to indicate that horses who have better head carriage will predominantely have less breathing problems. eg DDSP…

Nutrition

Yet another important factor is is mineral and vitamin deficiencies which are predominant today due to the over use of pesticides and fertiliser’s. Our land for breeding and pastures for summer breaks for horses needing “Dr Grass” is predominately insufficient in the required substances necessary. Our young stock have not the required mineral and vitamin balance needed to grow strong hoofs, cartilage and bone.. The older horses confined to stables should be given a balanced diet both nutritionally and nutraceutically. We all need to actively pay attention to this problem by assuring adequate nutrition and supplementation if necessary.

If you have the interest and time to read into The Hemodynamic Flow Hypothesis for energy dissipation of the Equine Foot by Robert M. Boker VMB PhD. in further research done into the structures anatomy, Physiological studies of the foot’s vascular (blood system) I have attached a direct link below..

Evidence

Yes you readers may be asking the question? What evidence is there that barefoot horses perform better, have less injuries. It is well documented that historically shoeing weakens the foot and causes hoof deformatity, and the hard evidence is there. Can we convince our farriers to change tactics, to study more indept the detrimental anatomical changes taking place within the structures of the foot due to improper trimming and the use of shoes. Can they move forward into 21st centuary studies and research that has been done and proven to date.

Simon Earl racehorse trainer in the UK, has the majority of his racehorses running and performing extremely well barefoot.

Interesting Reading

NEW! ……Dr. Bowker’s Theory of Hemodynamics.
Thermographic Study of the Hoof (from EasyCare)
We here at Copperfield Equine Therapy now have Dermot McCourt a registered Master Farrier, a remedial equine Podiatrist, he has worked and trained in Saudi Arabia and also with several AANHCP practitioners in the United States. He started work with traditional farrier methods, but his career developed to working with severe foot problems – correcting damage to return horses to being sound. He can trim and educate you on the condition of your horses feet, make necessary changes for the well being of your horse, and increase dramatically their performance…
For further information, and treatment, or if you are concerned about your horses feet, please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Catherine Cooper Lic Ac Tcvm +353872654269

Equine Ovary Herbal Formula

copperfieldadmin — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:59:12 +0000

Equine Ovary Herbal Formula

A Natural combination of Chinese Herbs especially formulated for mares with ovarian problems, it regulates the mare that comes into season too much, or perhaps not at all. Also, calms the typical ovary mare.

For use in ovarian cysts, retained corpus lutetium and irregular cycle. It also keeps the balance in hormones that can effect behaviour, for instance if horses become aggressive and are refusing to perform.

This formula has proven very successful with all mares, improving performance and mood enormously.

Size: 1 kg Bag, Cost: €80 plus €10 postage to anywhere in UK and Ireland – contact us for deliveries to locations outside of these.

Equine Gastric Ulcer Treatment/Causes

copperfieldadmin — Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:45:16 +0000

Equine Gastric Ulcer Treatment/Causes

While microbes like bacteria do the bulk of the work in a horse’s digestive tract, enzymes also play a significant role. Enzymes are essential for complete, rapid digestion of feed, especially fiber. When enzyme levels are low, feed remains undigested and can ferment in a horse’s intestines. Instead of providing nutrients to the horse, this decaying feed nourishes harmful microorganisms which produce toxins and gases that can lead to colic and damage to the gut. As a result, digestive enzyme supplementation can accelerate the rate of feed digestion and boost nutrient absorption.

A foal enters the world with a sterile digestive tract; though, it quickly acquires millions of bacteria, both beneficial and harmful. Usually the beneficial bacteria are able to keep the harmful bacteria in check; however, harmful bacteria grow much more quickly than the beneficial ones and can take control of the foal’s young digestive system, with potentially disastrous results. Adding probiotics, enzymes and beneficial yeast to a foal’s diet helps strengthen its immune system and defend against harmful bacterial overgrowth. Probiotics also help stop and prevent diarrhea, loose stools and scours. This will lead to bigger, stronger, healthier animals at weaning.

As a horse matures it faces many stressful situations: weaning, transporting, trailering, showing, changes in housing, changes in weather, sickness, breeding, foaling, injury and chronic pain to name just a few. This stress increases acidity in the
horse’s gut, which can kill off beneficial bacteria; which also occurs with the administration of antibiotics. Introducing
probiotics into the horse’s diet can speed up the recolonization of the digestive tract with beneficial bacteria
and prevent the harmful effects of digestive imbalance, including colic.
Since probiotics and enzymes improve the digestion and absorption of nutrients, even healthy horses can benefit
from supplementation. Optimal digestive health means improved coats, stronger hooves and superior athletic
performance.

Older animals are not able to digest, absorb and metabolize nutrients as easily, leading to decreased body weight and deteriorating overall health. Muscle mass begins to decline and connective tissue becomes lax, causing sagging of the topline and belly. The horse’s immune system also suffers, which increases the risk of infections and delays healing. As a result, improving your older animal’s digestive health is vitally important to its longevity. By supplementing your horse’s diet with probiotics, enzymes and beneficial yeast, it will have more nutrients and increased muscle mass, improving the quality of your horses’s overall health.
For further information or diagnosis and treatment. Please contact me or buy online product for ulcers.

_____

Equine Herbal Kidney Infection Remedy

copperfieldadmin — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:54:01 +0000

Equine Herbal Kidney Infection Remedy

Contains: Chinese herbs formulated for all kidney/bladder infections.

Has your horse got a sore back, especially behind the saddle. This can present as tight and sore muscles caused by kidney/bladder infections and can be due to micro-toxins in feed and water.

Always use directly after a Detox Programme for best results.

Size: 500 gram bag

_______________________________________________________________

Region: Ireland & UK (please contact for other regions).

Price: €36.00 + €6.50 Post & Packing

Horse Ovarian Herbal Formula

copperfieldadmin — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:33:41 +0000

Equine Herbal Ovarian Formula

Contains: A formula that regulates the mare that comes into season too much, or perhaps not at all. Also, calms the typical ovary mare that can be agressive and untrainable. For use in ovarian cysts, retained corpus lutetium and irregular cycle.

Size: 1 kg Bag

_______________________________________________________________

Region: Ireland

Price: €75.00 + €12 Post & Packing

_______________________________________________________________

Region: UK

Price: €75.00 + €2o Post & Packing

Equine Laminitis Treatment

copperfieldadmin — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:07:39 +0000

Equine Laminitis Treatment

_____

A formula enriched with some herbs that was originally designed by Dr Xie Huisheng DVM, in USA. This formula has incrediably changed the lifestyle of the Laminitic horse, and allowed them to live a normal life. To be given on the onset of Laminitis each year aroung Spring time, it will prevent this condition , can also be given to treat laminitis involving a 50% rotation of the coffin joint. This special herbal mix costs €50 plus €10 postage to Ireland or the UK.

_____

Equine Diabetes

Adult-onset diabetes might underlie problems currently puzzling owners and veterinarians

The modern horse has been referred to as an excellent example of evolution. Natural selection has equipped the animal to thrive on forage (grass) and to adapt to seasonal variations in the availability of that grass. In periods of good weather and plentiful rain, the horse adjusted to intensive grazing and the production and storage of fat within its body. These fat deposits were used in cold weather or in times of drought and poor grass availability. Horses that stored fats best were healthier; they survived lean times better and reproduced more regularly. Their genes were selected for, and, consequently, are represented in, a reasonable section of the genetics of the modern horse.

Today’s horses rarely have to tolerate times of poor forage availability and drought. In most situations, in present times they receive plenty to eat and have had less and less work to do.

“Under modern horse management systems,” writes Philip Johnson, B.V.Sc., M.S., a leading laminitis researcher from the University of Missouri School of Veterinary Medicine, “the combination of feeding starch-rich rations over many years and protracted periods of stall confinement tend to lead to the acquisition and maintenance of substantial body fat in the domesticated horse.”

Simply put, we are making our horses fat by feeding them too much. We keep them in stalls and work them too little, which probably contributes to a number of more serious problems, as well.

Problems of Obesity

Diabetes is a common health condition in humans. Until recently, the disease was not thought to exist in horses. A review of medical literature over the past 50 years shows only a small number of cases of equine diabetes. The majority of cases were caused either by pancreatitis (an infection of the pancreas) or by tumors of the pancreas or pituitary gland.

Recently, many equine researchers are taking a closer look at metabolic conditions in horses that they believe are strikingly similar to type 2 or adult-onset diabetes in humans. Johnson has a special interest in such conditions and has noted the increasing problems associated with obesity in both horses and humans. Obesity can be difficult enough, but the secondary problems that tend to occur in overweight horses really concern him.

The tendency for horses to develop obesity and the problems and diseases of the endocrine system that result from obesity-associated insulin insensitivity, according to Johnson, “closely parallel the development of noninsulin-dependent or adult-onset diabetes in humans.”

Perhaps equine diabetes is only now understood and accurately diagnosed. Or, it might have existed all along and been misdiagnosed or under-diagnosed. Or, the increased attention and medical care currently given to equine senior citizens have caused the veterinary community to become more sensitive.

Johnson believes we might have helped create this condition by unknowingly managing our horses too well in the face of their ability to make and store fat. Regardless, we are currently seeing higher levels of obesity in horses and are seeing more and more cases that resemble type 2 diabetes.

Equine Insulin Production

In a normal horse or human, insulin is secreted by special cells in the pancreas in response to a rise in blood glucose. Eating a meal rich in sugar and starch will elevate the glucose or sugar in the blood. The body senses this increase and releases insulin, which stimulates the body’s cells to take up glucose from the blood and, once in the cell, use it for energy or convert it for storage.

Glucose typically is converted to glycogen or fat. Type 2 diabetes is the end stage of breakdown of this system. Typically, horses that have trouble with insulin sensitivity have cells that slowly lose their responsiveness to insulin. At first, the body simply increases the production of insulin and the cells respond to this new, higher level. Normal glucose levels are maintained. Gradually, however, cells become resistant to higher and higher levels of insulin. Eventually, the insulin-producing cells of the pancreas become fatigued and are finally exhausted.

This is the normal progression for this disease in humans, but not in horses. Horses seem to be able to maintain a high level of insulin production even in the face of extreme insensitivity of the cells of the body to that insulin. So, even though horses maintain insulin production, there comes a point where there is no response to that production, and they are considered to have type 2 or noninsulin-dependent, adult-onset diabetes.

There are names for the various stages along the way to this conclusion. The term insulin resistance or impaired glucose tolerance has been used, but the exact demarcation between these conditions is not clear and the progression of clinical names is somewhat academic. The bottom line is these are stages of a disease that leads to a horse having difficulty controlling glucose and metabolizing fat.

Signs of Metabolic Problem

Insulin inhibits the breakdown of triglycerides (fat molecules) into free fatty acids and glycerol. In the absence of insulin–and possibly when the body no longer responds to insulin even if it is there–the process of lipolysis can occur allowing the horse’s body to release fatty acids.

These acids are transported to the liver, where they are repackaged. Then they are transported to fat tissues and stored. Insulin generally would keep these fats in other cells where they are more likely to be used for energy. Some cresty-necked horses and overly fat ponies might be insulin resistant as they inappropriately continue to store fat in the tissues of the crest, back, and hips.

This body condition may be the first clue to an underlying metabolic problem. These horses also tend to stay fat on minimal rations. Owners often refer to then as “living on air.” They have good appetites and always seem hungry, despite having more than adequate fat stores. They do poorly with exercise, tire easily, and do not seem to have much energy. When they do tolerate exercise, they tend not to develop much muscling, compared to normal horses with the same workload.

As with human diabetics, there is believed to be a genetic predisposition for insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. Johnson mentioned the evolutionary advantages of being a good fat producer, so it is little wonder that some ponies, Morgan and other gaited breeds, and certain Arab bloodlines have all been suspected of a genetic predisposition for insulin resistance.

Conditions are linked

It is not currently known if obesity leads to insulin resistance or if insulin resistance contributes to obesity, but the two conditions are linked. Conditions of temporary insulin resistance have been shown to occur in horses during times of stress and with infection, inflammation, and even extreme variations of some hormones.

The exact process of this temporary resistance is unknown, but human studies have shown that sustained levels of elevated blood glucose can lead to microvasculature changes in many tissues. Damage to these small blood vessels leads to a lack of cellular oxygen and to potential cell death.

It is well known that human diabetics are at risk of developing all manners of infections and have higher percentages of liver and kidney disease. Damage to the nerves and blood vessels of the hands and lower limbs of diabetics often lead to the loss of fingers and toes. In fact, the most common diabetic complication requiring hospitalization in humans is foot disease. This point might be the most important link between diabetes in humans and horses.

Insulin Resistance and Laminitis

Christopher C. Pollitt, B.V.Sc., Ph.D., of the School of Veterinary Sciences at the University of Queensland in Australia, has been looking at insulin resistance and laminitis, and he feels the two are related. His research suggests that altered glucose metabolism could be an underlying or contributing cause to almost all cases of laminitis.

Lack of glucose in the peripheral tissues (fingers and toes) of humans, as seen in diabetes, leads to damage of the peripheral nerves (peripheral neuropathy) and to ischemic damage or lack of cellular oxygen. This process has been well documented. In Pollitt’s studies, lack of glucose in hoof extract tissue led to damage of the basement membrane and to separation of the dermal laminae from the epidermal laminae. This is the exact cellular sequence in cases of laminitis or founder.

This process of insulin resistance leading to excess glucose storage and decreased glucose availability, and finally to cellular death and laminitis, would explain a few things. Veterinarians and horse owners often have wondered why one horse out of many grazing the same field and on the same management program develops laminitis. Why can one crafty pony continually get into the feed room and overeat without incident while another pony eats far less and develops founder?

Veterinarians ponder why some horses fail to respond to aggressive laminitis treatment when far more horses improve and return to nearly normal under the exact same treatment regimen. Why do some horses seem to develop laminitis following a dose of dexamethasone or other corticosteroid that is almost uniformly tolerated by most horses?

The answer could lie in some degree of insulin resistance in those horses that develop laminitis and do not respond normally to treatment. Cases of laminitis following infection, stress, or even grain overload possibly might share more of a temporary insulin resistance state than strict endotoxemia (an overload of bacterial toxins in the blood), as has been previously thought.

Because the idea of an underlying metabolic basis to laminitis potentially explains so many previously confusing cases, some researchers have been calling the idea of insulin resistance in horses the “unification theory.” This theory points the way to potentially new methods of treating laminitis that would be directed more at correcting glucose metabolism and new means of prevention related to treating insulin resistance and diabetes. The formula below has been significient and should be well rewarded for its action on the laminitic horse.

The research done by Dr Shen Huisheng to design and formulate this herbal formula which in my practice certainly have resulted in recovery and horses returning to normal activity.

Once an early diagnosis is made the formula below will prevent any rotation to the coffin joint. If the joint has already started to rotate even to the level of 50%this formula will prevent any further movement and resolve the problem.

____________________________________________________________

Breathing Easy Formula

copperfieldadmin — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 16:06:36 +0000

Breathing Easy Formula

A special blend of Chinese herbs that moistens and nourishes and strengthens delicate lung tissue there by increasing bronco-dilation and oxygen delivery. Used for dry coughs, wheezing and bleeding.

If your horse is suffering with respiratory problems, then it is advisable to contact Catherine for a consultation so she can make a specific formula best suited to your horse’s needs. There can be many different etologies to lung disorders.

Size: 1 Kg Bucket; Price: €95.00 + €10 Postage – delivery to Ireland & UK – contact us for deliveries outside of these areas.

Equine Herbal Detox

copperfieldadmin — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 15:38:37 +0000

Equine Herbal Detox

A specially formulated herbal mix that is essential for horses.

The Equine Herbal Detox contains a blend of different herbs that will remove all toxins from the body, improve circulation and ease pain, especially in the feet.

Toxins do build up in the lower extremities of horses and cause pain and inflammation within the hoof structures.

This formula can be given twice yearly to all horses and especially the laminitic horse.

Size: 500 gram bag

Price: €50.00 + €10.00 Post & Packing

Region: Ireland & UK – for sales to areas outside of these please call or email.